I’m New Here, Episode 2
Guests: River Wilde, Craig Stewart
(Recording from youtube)
Dave: Well, Good Morning from Smithers, BC...We have made it out after that huge drive yesterday...We caught up with our friend, Kimberly, and went out last night with some of her friends for a few drinks...Well, we’ve just come down from Smithers and it’s Gay Day…
Pat: ha ha ha…
Dave: There’s a new world coming to town and set this one up for us...who would have thought that Smithers was going to have a Gay Day…
Pat: If I knew, I would have, um, brought along my proper outfit but no...this beast one will do.
Dave: It’s a very beautiful town surrounded, by these beautiful mountains all behind us...the backdrop is absolutely sensational! So we’re going to show you around today, we have a few ideas to take you and have a look around but fresh air, mountain air, is always good for one’s soul so, we’ll talk back, um shortly...so, Kim, known here since many, many years...she’s our tour guide in Smithers...she’s just taking us to the local coffee shop...looks pretty impressive...gonna have another coffee in a moment...spin the camera around so there’s downtown Smithers...so there’s a Gay Day parade here going on which is fantastic for a small town. Swing it around for ya...look at that! Look at those mountains! What a beautiful town this is. Reminds me of Matrovan, Queenstown...it’s got that New Zealand feeling with the mountains around it...yeah…
They’ve even got a Rainbow Crossing...how cool is that…
Welcome back to I’m New Here...The podcast about the people of Bulkley Valley. And, I just want to be clear, this isn’t just a podcast for people from the Bulkley Valley, by the way...it’s my podcast to the rest of the world from the Bulkley Valley.
(quickly, quietly) Do you ever get that, where you say a word so many times then it starts to lose all meaning to you? Bulkley Valley is starting to do that to me.
You see, I moved to northern BC in February of 2020 from London, Ontario. I lived in Ontario my entire life...like, the whole time...grew up in Strathroy...or, as some backwards cap wearing, neon pink, you-mad-bro yank top-sporting, Monster energy drink guzzling dude once called it…Strath-Vegas. I don’t know why that town nickname caught on the way it did.
We had a perfectly good one before that... it was No! Not STRATFORD...STRATHROY!
But, I came to the valley with one suitcase and my cat in tow ready to be a BC’er. I was gonna learn to ski, snowshoe, bake bread, hob-knob with the locals and drink delicious beer. (Whisper...beer!)
Something I didn’t plan to encounter in a remote community in northern British Columbia though...a naughty, tantalizing and near-nude burlesque display at a friend’s 50th birthday party.
River Wilde: Hahaha...
Pam: Ok...let’s start with your name…and how long you’ve lived in the valley...
River Wilde: Thank you…
Pam: And, also, you can include when you left and came back and why…
River Wilde: That I can do…um, I go by River...I go, actually, by my persona name which is River Wilde.
I also go by the name Brady which is my given last name. Um...I grew up in the Kispiox Valley, um, ooooh, wow, 1976, born and raised...uh...lived there til I was 15...teen angst helped move me away...heh...then I was in Victoria for 26 years where I went away to make a new family...make my own life...so Western of me...and, then, realized “What am I doing?” Cause every time I came back to visit, I just loved it...and people were so kind and, um, the more I came back the more I wanted to stay and, as I got older, it was like “this isn’t my life that I thought I was making...this isn’t what I thought. Uh...so, probably about 5 years ago, I followed my sister back up here. My sister, Megan. And fell in love, because I fell in love with CICK, uh, and, found my community...so, I ended up here.
Pam: Here they are...River Wilde
(voice over) When I was first introduced to River, they were this magnetic, funny, warm person that I immediately felt weirdly intimidated by. Not that they said or did anything to make me feel that way...I was just so impressed at their confidence and living silly and displaying extroverted tendencies...yet have this quiet calmness to them that was well...as I said, pretty magnetic...and then, as I mentioned, I saw them perform burlesque and I almost lost my voice laughing and hooting for more.
River Wilde: So coming back up north...while there was this kindness of people and this love...there was this sense of loss of this other identity that I’d spent 26 years creating. Um, and really thriving at...I felt like in Victoria and, uh, a certain identity around queerness around, um, gender uh around political um philosophical um kind of views and so when I came back there was this sense of people thinking they kind of knew me cause they had known me for so many years prior or visited me for a few hours every year when I would come back for holidays. But, there wasn’t a sense of familiarity with them. I didn’t talk like them...I didn’t think like them so there was always these internal dialogues where I would just be smiling and nodding but really wanting to say this, this and that and, so, when I found CICK, I got to just be authentic.
I feel definitely that I was part of, kind of, a wave that, I think, is still in motion...um...that I kind of came in and brought a different realm of...I don’t know...a sexuality...like I definitely...um...I’ve always been a very sensual human...always...like from a very young age...inappropriately so. Um, and so when I finally got to be older and got to find ways of owning that...making it my own...not feeling like I was being oppressed by it...um...but got to play with it...then it became my mission, and always was, even previous was...I want everybody to be able to enjoy sensualness and pleasure and expression. Um, of that...so, when I got up here and found these kind of friends and just got to be myself I was like I want to be able to have other people also to feel comfortable and not feel scared. Because I am not afraid to put myself out and be vulnerable...cause I did...I put myself at risk in this community by being ‘that’...like there is not the same way to be able to hide like you can in the city...where here I am very exposed...literally...hehehe...and so, um, so there is a sense of confidence and calmness and respect that I have to have for myself around it that I then relay as a kind of a ripple effect to other people around me.
Pam: (voice over) Uh...I love this so much. I had a very similar experience as growing up as a perverted kid in a small town feeling super out-of-place but wanting my people to see through my normal-ness and take me aside and say: “You might be able to fool them, but you can’t fool us”.
River Wilde: I loved dancing and acting from a very young age so musicals were a huge component...um…
Pam: I’ve seen you do karaoke…
River Wilde: Yeah...right...yeah...I just love that...I love playing characters and being characters...um and then there’s also been this private life where I’ve been so sensual...um, identified as polyamorous so I have multiple loves and relationships...um...my biggest influence, which gives you an idea of sexuality and philosophy is Rocky Horror Picture Show...um...watching that at a young age...um...I just assumed that’s how the world should be and we all should be able to be that fluid and expression. Madonna’s Truth and Dare another example of a time that was right when things were being visual and being able to be like “It’s OK to kiss other people the same sex”...um, so those were kind of that influence right at a really pinnacle point. It didn’t go well in the town, in Hazelton, it didn’t. I didn’t do well ‘laughs’
Pam: How were you displaying that?
River Wilde: Um, I just didn’t know not to...I just didn’t know I’ve just been always, so as you say, has always been there...I’ve just been always been sensual, I’ve always been somebody that feels pleasure by bringing other people pleasure...whether through flirting and having them feel that attention and receiving that attention.
Um...I grew up wanting to be a stripper and dancer...like I didn’t know these were bad things which is, you know, kinda nice but I had this naivety of “Ooo, I could be naked and dance and be sexual” and then being, you know, later on in your teens, early twenties, being shamed, being like “don’t do that”, “this is horrible”. Then going back to the school’s social work, reacquainting myself with oppression and feminism principals, um, and then looking at other communities and then being like “Oh, other people are expressing themselves as I did in isolation in many ways”...now very openly. So, then I found this, like, I could do this, still be able to be seen as a ”professional” (quote, unquote...I’m giving air quotations, here)...um, and, still be able to strip...and be able to play these games and have fun because life is short. So pleasure is a big thing for me.
Pam: Yeah…
River Wilde: So...prior to burlesque, like other people, i was just very influenced and just, continually, inundated by media pictures of what beauty is and what is considered sexually good (laughs) and desirable and well I had lots of those traits...was blessed that way...there were also parts of me that were maybe...didn’t fit that mold and so when I got into burlesque and I was witnessing burlesque and seeing all different types of bodies and ages, um, and ways of expressing and costuming, um, but in a way that was still this much confidence and sensuality that I wanted more of that, so to me just burlesque, in the sense of these were not typical beauties, they maybe are shorter, have “frumpier”...they’re bigger...they’re smaller...taller...you know, they’re not the ones you’re going to see in a magazine, and...they were just alive on stage, so, that was a big thing...it was the first 6 months of me battling my own internalized oppression, um, around what is beauty with what I was seeing. THAT all of sudden made me go “What IS sexy? WHAT is it that is making people be attracted to people?” And then I realized...Oh, it’s confidence...feeling good inside. As humans, we want to feel good...we want people around us to feel good and if we’re watching people feel good that makes us sit in that comfort and desire that...and, that’s what’s the most attractive and why burlesque is so powerful to me is breaking your own ideas of beauty, of sexuality, of even just humour...just entertainment...factors of weirdness.
River Wilde is definitely a part of me but also a persona...very much a persona. Um, in the sense of my actual me is way more of a slutty, horny, foul mouthed dirty bird. Right...like I joke like I’m the thirteen year old boy...like that’s, you know, that like (laughs) “this is so much fun and gross”.
And then River is, her title is Professional, Perverted Prude. So she is a truly a lady, um, her growing up kind of in the 1940’s...she’s influenced by the 1980’s and, then obviously, even to the modern kind of era, as well. But very much rooted in this 1940’s of you treat me like a lady...you open doors for me...you carry things for me...you don’t swear...you’re going to be so respectful of me, um, and yet I’m going to tease you in in that...so when I’m up on stage, and when I’m in River, I am River...so from the moment I wake up that morning, I am bringing in that energy and that character, um, so wearing the clothes I wear, what I surround myself with, um, especially at the beginning when I first was doing this, I really had to delve into it. Now I can kinda throw it in a little bit later on...I might smoke a bit of weed once in a while beforehand but, again, there was this time of, like, River would NEVER do that...so don’t ever do anything River wouldn’t do...and there was quite a list of things, um, that River would or wouldn’t do and, so, when I’m up on stage...I am River...I really am and yet also so present and cognisant of the audience and I feel like I’m breathing with them...we’re breathing together...there is that sense of “I need to remain calm”...”I need to remain in my body of comfort” because that related to you.
So having fun when mistakes happen. That was my biggest gift I gave to myself as a performer cause things would go wrong...I just am...I’m just not a person that practices enough…right? (laughs) So things mess up...and, so then, it’s like “K...how do I have FUN with this?” And that’s where that clowning element comes in. Burlesque is really about juxtaposition...that idea of...there’s conflict...so that...how you talked about those two kind of ‘where you feel/what are you feeling battle’...I love to hear that. Because, truthfully, that was what I was trying to do in particular with that piece is take elements that don’t necessarily go together and be, like, let’s try to put these together and see how people react to that, cause there is going to be a level of discomfort for people because they’re gonna be...be like...how do I react and so I’m glad (laughs) that that worked. I just...I always loved games...always loved being the one, like, I’m just that person...I am controlling...I was the one that had the birthday party and I was...we did a play for the birthday party and I was the princess and the prince...ha ha ha…
There’s a certain kind of campiness to it as well, right? So, she’s a polite bitch. She’s, again, there’s this juxtapositions of I’m taking my clothes off but, oh yeah...I’m wearing gloves and a scarf and a hat because my skin is so precious...it shouldn’t be touched by air...you know like (laughs) like those kind of things but meanwhile I’m gonna now tassel twirl and now I’m gonna crawl on the floor...you know, like those kind of ideas of making the things kind of clash and of fun ways where I really have fun. I feel there is still a lot of shame around sexuality and, in particular, um, women acting and engaging in sexual prowess whatever the word is again...but, yeah...that sexual expression...and I feel like almost that anything it’s more with the women...local women and, again, we’re...I can’t hold that against people because that’s what we’ve been trained...we’ve been trained to oppress ourselves as women...as I said my biggest battle with burlesque was myself...I was my worst enemy. I could see and support everybody else around me and be like “Yeay!” Cheer, cheer, cheer on! My own internal dialogue when I first started burlesquing...like, yeah...I’m preaching ‘love your body’ meanwhile I’m duct taping every piece of softness into my, you know...hiding everything I possibly can...meanwhile I’m sitting in the change room and I’m looking over and I see one of my cohort’s and she’s pulling out her muffin top...she’s fluffing it...and I’m like “What are you doing?” Meanwhile, I’ve literally duct taped down and she’s like “It’s SEXY!” And I’m like “WHAT? OH! Of course, for you, that’s sexy...Interesting!” Meanwhile, I’m looking over at another girl who I think is just PERFECTION and flawless and she’s like “OH...look at the cellulite!...OH...it’s so Horrible!” Talking about herself and I’m like “”Oh...is that what all that lumpy thing is? I have legs like that but that never bothers me.” So, again, going “Oh, wait...what YOU’RE finding gross I didn’t even know I should even be upset about...but, again, all these messages of women oppressing ourselves and, then, you can’t help but relay that oppression onto others.
Pam: Has River Wilde ever ‘not’ been able to dominate an audience?
River Wilde: Noooo...YES!!! One performance...but that was my own doing. My one performance, huge stage, Rio Theatre in Vancouver...um...I was SO new...I was so new again, worst enemy…I had just won this competition cross-province BC...I was in the top 12...I was “What am I doing?” I felt like I was a fraud...like somebody’s gonna find out that I’m no good and I’m here and I’m out back and with all these city people...and they all knew each other and I’m just so confused and I get onto a stage and it’s this HUGE stage and there’s...there’s like ten feet between me and the audience and the audience is in the black so I can’t even see them so I’m just up there...alone...and my zipper won’t come undone...and I...I just lost it...I couldn’t stay in character...I couldn’t hide my fear...my terror...and I ached thinking, oh…WHAT THE HELL! You know...what was I going through? Because they musta just...uhh...felt so sick to their stomach watching me struggle up there. After that, I promised I would only have fun...like, if I needed to we would go with it and just go crazy and I do eventually, in that performance, eventually try to save it but it was too late...the damage was done. They felt unsafe...you have to keep people feeling safe for them to be able to express themselves and to receive that joy.
Pam: We’ll continue with River in a little bit. But, they possess a spirit that I find to be a similarity in people I’ve met from the Valley. They know what they like, they thought the Valley might be too small for their pursuits but they find their way back because the community needs people like them. Someone who, I think, has a similar spirit to River is my next guest Craig Stewart.
Craig: Sure. Name now is Craig Stewart...I’ve been in Smithers three separate times...um, the first time I was summer student from, uh, geology school in 1979 and I loved Smithers at the time...it was only for a night BUT we checked out the Chocolate Moose, which was really cool, and I’ve done Hudson Bay Mountain my first, ah, look at Hudson Bay Mountain and then the second time was in 1986 after I came back from travelling from Australia and I ended up...I was consulting as a geologist then and I ended up working on Dome Mountain for 2 weeks and then ended up staying here for over a year...er, there...and Smithers for over a year working on the backside of Hudson Bay Mountain and a whole bunch of mining projects and consulting with that...and then it was back down to Vancouver and then back up I got a job...I switched careers to be a geologist with the Ministry of the Environment in 1991 and came to Smithers in January of that year and been there ever since.
Pam: I met Craig when I failed HORRIBLY at snowboarding. I took a ski lesson and my instructor was a man with icy blue eyes and crows feet from smiling and looking at the sun. We began with the regular ‘get to know you’ chatter; when I found out he used to work with the Ministry of Environment but left because it didn’t make him happy. At one point, it felt right but now he taught yoga and skiing to flat-landers and newb’s alike...of which I belong to both categories. THIS is Craig…
Craig: I said I’d had enough and had changed in a way that wasn’t sitting well with me so I thought, OK...It’s time not to be here anymore. That just told me that I was in the wrong place at that time. So, things have changed enough that I just wasn’t comfortable being...doing what I was being asked to do. And I decided that, you know what... I spent a long time there and was for the most part it was a phenomenal career and I was ready for new stuff...I was ready for change and, ahm...there were a few things that were a catalyst and, ah, yea...it was fine...so, I decided and I left very quickly and have had not a single day of regret. Yeah...that summer I took my yoga teachers training down on Salt Spring Island and, without that, I had no intentions on teaching at all. And, it was just for self improvement and, ah, so I spent a couple months down there...which was phenomenal and great people and, ah, yeah...it was because of that and feedback that I was getting from instructors and other students that I should give it a whirl so I enlisted a bunch of very good friends in Smithers that I could test out a ten week kind of practice session to see if I could actually do this and get some feedback from them. And, ah, yeah...we had fun...it was good...I really enjoyed it. And then I taught on my own a bit and I taught at Full Circle Studio with Philippa, ah, for a while in a men’s class for 2 years. Um, I really enjoyed it. At the same time, I took my level one ski instructor’s ticket...started working at the Hudson Bay Mountain and, ah, that was easier because it was much more flexible for me and I, ah, I never have the same students. Maybe from year to year but usually not the same year. So it was different...they’re more one-off classes as opposed to building, ah, with the same group or host the same group over a long period of time. So, for me, it was a better fit in terms of time management, um, but I love them both and, ah, yes I taught there for 4 years.
Pam: Craig and I agreed that Smithers had this air about it that it was a good place to come and pursue your dreams.
Craig: Oh, very much so and if you looked at lots of the people who have, um, careers there they often don’t work full time and they’re pursuing other...other life passions and interests and whatnot...so, yeah...I would say it does...if you wish to do that, it definitely is a great place to base yourself out of.
Pam: A question I like to ask of each of my guests is “What would you tell a new person to Smithers that they have to do?”
Craig: Oh! Ah, well, actually I don’t tell people...what they...what they should do because everybody’s so different from what I like...I never like to assume that they might like it too, but, if they ask me and I...I would say well what do you like to do and, depending on that answer, um, you know, I would gear to outdoor life and things. So I would certainly direct them to snowshoeing or cross country skiing or downhill skiing in the winter, ah...or just, you know, even going for a wander on Tyee Lake when it’s frozen...I hike a lot on my own, bike a lot and do alot of things on my own and very comfortable, very...I find it very calm...very peaceful...um...so, yeah...for me certainly, ah, I get that...I think that’s why I’ve been so comfortable for so many years in the town...ah, it’s just a very, to me, a very relaxing place to live...I don’t need a lot of shopping, I don’t need a lot of stuff from the city, ah...I don’t need it...I don’t want it...um, so, why I love the small town, ah...I hate to use the word ‘vibe’ hah but I will (laughs) small town vibe...when you walk down the street and you know people...I mean...you could walk down Main Street and you know lots of people by name and you know them when you go into restaurants...it’s just really comforting and nice and you can build really good friendships and, um, I play a lot of sports there so you meet a lot of people through that...there’s all sorts of sporting activities for teens. So, yeah, so there’s a real….there’s a real opportunity if you choose to take it to...to meet a lot of people but it’s also extremely conducive to just hanging out on your own and enjoying peace and solitude and a little less of a hectic lifestyle.
Pam: Ahhumm…
Craig: I think it caters to pretty much all and why...I don’t know...I think it’s just, ahm, you know, some places just have a certain energy that tend to perhaps collect people...um...to entice them to put down roots...maybe it’s just luck in terms of, you know, opportunities and..and...but, you know...ahm...I think if you get...if you get an energy to start with that nucleus that’s very, ahm...engaging...rewarding...ah...supportive...I think that attracts more of that same type.
Pam: Craig is currently living in Germany with his lady friend that he met while biking in Europe. He left early enough in 2020 when Germany was still letting Canadians travel there. I look forward to him coming back and showing him how far I’ve come on my skis since our first lesson.
On the next episode of I’m New Here:
Pam: And so...did he sponsor you to come to Canada?
Wayne: No I was running away from all the women...they all wanted to get married and I didn’t want to get married. Believe it or not I found my wife in Kitimat.
Pam: So you did...so you got caught…
Wayne: Yeah Ha ha ha….
Pam: (voice over) Thanks for listening to I’m New Here, Episode 2 .
Big thanks to River and Craig for your candour and for humouring me with questions that sometimes went nowhere.
Pam: Is there anything you find that’s statistically unique about this area?
Craig: Ha! No!
Pam: (laughs)
River: Is that any...is that any different? Is that better? Alright...there we go...
Pam: (moving the microphone) OK...So...I’m ready...you look...you look good...
River: I’m lookin’ good...hahaha
Pam: OK, great! Um...so can we start off with a...a some introduction of yourself…
River: No…(both laugh)...
Pam: I’m New Here is a production of Haasenpod...this podcast is funded by the Bulkley Valley Arts Council. This episode features music by Makaih Beats and the intro was a clip from YouTube Travel Show Dave, Pat and a map. You can go there to check out their full northern BC episode. Thanks to CICK Smithers Community Radio for playing this show. Each episode of I’m New Here can be found wherever you get your podcasts and...on haasenpod.com
Thanks for listening!
Here’s the script for episode 3